While still a student, Kamille Smidt Rasmussen experienced gender discrimination at the university. It still exists today, and now she and Anthropologist Signe Vogel have focused on the lack of gender equality at the universities in a podcast series.

2021.11.15 | Jakob Binderup Christensen

Why do relatively few women have top jobs at the universities? Why do the majority of research grants go to men, and why do many women decide not to pursue a career at the university? And is there actually gender equality in academia?

For Kamille Smidt Rasmussen, PhD, associate professor and head of the graduate programme at the Department of Clinical Medicine, the answer to the last question is "no".

And to learn more about why, despite years of action plans, equal opportunities policies and declarations of intent, there is still a clear predominance of men sitting in the university's most important positions, she and Anthropologist and PhD student Signe Vogel – also from the Department of Clinical Medicine – decided to get involved in a podcast project, which they have christened "Operation Kvindekamp" (in English, “Operation Woman’s Struggle”, Please note that the podcasts are in Danish).

In the five episodes so far available, the two women have focused on topics such as anti-feminism, imbalance in the distribution of research grants and feminist activism.

All the topics aim to help listeners understand some of the phenomena that can be an obstacle to women at the university.

"Sometimes you get the feeling that more people should do something, and sometimes it’s your turn. This was the feeling both Signe and I had," explains Kamille Smidt Rasmussen about the background for the podcasts.

Different opportunities for women and men

Both women are already members of the Department of Clinical Medicine’s activist group Linje X, who write a monthly column on gender equality in the university newspaper Omnibus.

In contrast to Linje X, "'Operation Kvindekamp" is Signe Vogel and Kamille Smidt Rasmussen’s own initiative – only supported by their joint insistence on talking about a major problem at the universities.

"The fundamental problem as that there isn’t, in our experience, gender equality at the university. For us, it’s solely about the difference between career opportunities for men and women, and we want to do something about this. Which we do with information, because that's what we can provide."

"At the same time, we made the podcast so we could have a common language and a shared starting point for the discussion of gender equality at the universities," says Kamille Smidt Rasmussen.

Huge imbalance at the top

The fact that "'Operation Kvindekamp" became a podcast was in part due to it being a flexible media that makes it possible to reach a wider audience quickly and easily.

"We also thought about inviting people to a big event with various lectures and presentations. But a podcast is much easier to approach, and it was something we had one hundred percent control over ourselves," says Kamille Smidt Rasmussen.

As head of graduate programme at the Department of Clinical Medicine, she meets many of the women who want to pursue a career at the university.

Today, 53 per cent of all Ph.D-students at AU are women. The proportion of women then gradually decreases for every step up the career ladder.

Only 38 per cent of AU’s associate professors are women, 24 per cent of the professors are women and 16 per cent of the of the university’s top management are held be a woman.

Early experience with discrimination

Kamille Smidt Rasmussen has herself experienced how the environment and culture at the university can be a challenge for women – not least when they are as she is, a mother.

While a student, she needed to find a supervisor for her Master's project, and arranged a meeting with a prominent professor to discuss a potential collaboration.

She quickly made it clear to the professor that she was a single mother and therefore had to drop off her child in the morning and pick up him up in the afternoon.

"Then he said to me that he believed you should take your professional duties seriously. Implying that you aren’t taking your work seriously, if you have to stay home when your child is ill, or you have to leave early because the day-care institution closes at five."

Tough path to the top

Years have passed since the episode. Kamille Smidt Rasmussen ended up choosing another supervisor for her Master's project and – unlike many other women – chose to remain at the university.

But she well understands why some women choose a different career path. According to her, men have better conditions at the university than women.

"As a student, you might not notice gender discrimination so much. It’s only now where I’m not a student and have become part of the environment that I can see that there isn’t gender equality, and that there is a difference between the genders," she says.

There is a lot of focus on this imbalance at the university. Can you give an example of how women are discriminated against today?

"There’s been a number of occasions where I’m in a meeting and it’s become clear that things have been agreed in advance. So over the years I’ve learned that if I'm not invited to a preliminary meeting, then I have no influence. And if you look at something like appointments, then it’s problematic that if you’re not moving in the right circles or coming to the right meetings, then you’re certainly not going to be considered for a position that you might really want."

Don’t women have the same open access to these kinds of meetings and circles as men?

"No, that's part of the problem. Most often it’s people from the top level who are on the appointment committee, and we all know that men are over-represented at management level. So it's a sort of men’s club. And as people often give jobs to people who resemble themselves, if a man is doing the hiring, then that person will most often hire a man. The Danish Centre for Studies in Research and Research Policy at AU has produced a report about this, and there is now a lot more focus on it, but it’s still not good enough."

Anxious about the podcast

Of course, "'Operation Kvindekamp" focuses on an issue at Kamille Smidt Rasmussen's own workplace.

For this reason, she had some misgivings before embarking on the project together with Signe Vogel.

"I was nervous about making the podcast. I was a little afraid that it could end up being counter-productive for myself and my future career opportunities, but I’ve only received positive feedback," she says.

So far, they have made five episodes of "'Operation Kvindekamp". Both Kamille Smidt Rasmussen and Signe Vogel want to continue working on the podcasts, but it has proved difficult to find time as they each already have full-time positions at AU.

Until "Operation Kvindekamp", hopefully, receives more resources, Kamille Smidt Rasmussen hopes that the universities will continue to actively work towards more gender equality.

Also because it is not only women who pay the price for the imbalance in gender distribution at the universities, according to Kamille Smidt Rasmussen.

"Firstly, the lack of gender equality is a democratic problem. It’s not fair that half of the population has worse conditions than the other half of the population," she says and adds:

"Secondly, it’s been proven that research becomes poorer when the research groups are less diverse – both in relation to gender, race and other backgrounds."

”Operation Kvindekamp” can be found on Spotify, Soundcloud and the iPhone podcast app.